Scarlet and Violet UU Post-Home Viability Rankings

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:cyclizar: A to A-: Genuinely surprised this guy hasn't been discussed more, Cyclizar has a similar issue to Hippowdon in that power creep makes it harder to justify. If you use Cyclizar you lose the ability to use the likes of Hydreigon, who is scarier to face. It struggles to spin because so many mons, especially physically offensive guys like Scizor, straight up take advantage of it. That said a spinner that's not completely bent by Basculegion is nice, so A- feels best for it
OBJECTION

The problem of Cyclizar IS NOT Hydreigon... Is more the fact that Iron Threads dropped to UU.
I have to ask you this, What is Cyclizar supposed to do in a team? I'll answer because it was a rethorical question, it's a support who combines the role of spinning, removing items and pivoting in one slot, while also outspeeding the base 100 and having regenerator to compensate its bad bulk. That's quite the useful role compression... and something Iron threads does as well.
Both outspeed Thundurus-T, both have knock off and rapid spin and both can pivot, although u-turn is more reliable than Volt switch. The difference is that Iron Treads has an steel typing and offensive pressense due to better stat distribution and ground type, as well as potential sweeping threats due to Ground + Ice + Dark coverage and rapid spin, which in general makes it a much better tera user.
On the other side of the spectrum we have arguably the best mon in UU due to having tons of roles, one of them being the pivot with regenerator, while having non-pitiful bulk akin to Cyclizar when investing fully on HP, allowing him to have offensive pressence with full special attack investment and to be treatening on offense with unreliable wind moves and focus blast. Just to prove my point let's see how they match up vs Maushold.

+1 252 Atk Technician Maushold Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tera Steel Cyclizar: 360-430 (104.6 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO

76 SpA Cyclizar Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Maushold: 253-301 (87.2 - 103.7%) -- 18.8% chance to 2HKO.

+1 252 Atk Technician Maushold Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Treads: 220-270 (68.5 - 84.1%) -- approx. guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Iron Treads Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Maushold: 160-189 (55.3 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252 Atk Technician Maushold Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Steel Tornadus-Therian: 300-360 (100.3 - 120.4%) -- approx 100.0% chance of OHKO (Not guaranteed)

252 SpA Tornadus-Therian Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Maushold: 294-346 (101.7 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed 70% chance of OHKO

That's why Cyclizar is so limited, not because what offers is bad, but because it's outclassed in many scenarios over just using Iron Treads. If you want to use Cyclizar, you need to be sure you'll get usage from Regenerator AND its support capabilities, otherwise is better to just use Treads or Tornadus-T. Normally it's used alongside Tornadus-T on balanced volturn teams as the spinner and item remover, which is a good style but is fading out of the meta as of lately in favor of offense.

In short I agree Cyclizar is more akin to A- but not for the reasons you describe.
 
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Been laddering a bit so ill give my long ass 2 cents because i can't write something concise.

> S : unsure. It's a fantastic glue to any team ranging from HO to balance, with amazing speed tier, good coverage and lots of sets flex. Taunt played well can decimate fat, but i also like bulkiers variants of boots (or even av) with a 4th coverage move. NP is there but better on paper than in pratctice imo. My issue with it is its inconsistency hitting moves, which makes it a slightly worse pivot than what youd like it to be

>S unsure, leaning S still. This is unbelievably annoying. The main reason that i think this could/should be S is the pressure it put on teams to have something that outspeeds to avoid getting negated by will o wisp or broken through by torch x2 / torch hex. Basically if you're not running Hydreigon (and ideally wish support to stay consistent against it throughout longer games) you need to creep the hell out of your donphan, muk-a to come as close as possible as not letting it cook. Its one of the greater defensive stops in the tier, with both una and tera shenanigans countering a hefty chunk of the meta, and it's not even too vulnerable to volt turn (still arguably its worst mu) as long as you manage to keep your boots.

> higher yeah. Treads definitely has the edge over Donphan rn (from what i get from too much laddering these past days), even if it's not great into it or into itself. But the steel type, speed, coverage options for av (Ice spinner for genies good), and the fact it's an amazing progress maker should be considered more highly. It's a bit of a weird mon to play because it needs to be played very conservative throughout most games, but its presence alone in a team impacts what quite a few mon will be able to do without being punished (thund, muk a, overqwil, hk9... each to diff extents)

is very solid and the only thing holding it back is the fact that it's not the easiest mon to put on teams. The fact it sits on tech loom kleavor zarude treads quaq and the spikes are super valuable. It's also one of the rare helmet holders and i think that's extremely valuable to have on teams rn. It should bump a rank.

is fantastic please raise this cool man who can both hold every item in the game and play p much every set too (ban qc)
I am eagerly awaiting the pokemonisfun post where I can literally do nothing against PIFrude and look like a clown fishing for crits that'd do 40%, but other sets are very convenient too and bring a lot of things both defensively and offensively. It's good, can rise a few subranks
yeah drop it a subrank. It's very vulnerable to koff, hazards and running into treads or phan. The typing is fine but the lack of recovery holds it back and i feel its getting powercreep a bit too hard to stay where it is
this is cool af and even if it's a bit cheesy, the speed tier alone ensures itll do something not useless. Cool tera possibilities and sets shuffle, very underrated pick, could get a rise.
should rise, even if it's not entirely impossible to abuse it it has too many options to cover while building (specs sub scarf), making it extremely restricting
is scary on paper but we have a decent amount of priority and tera options to keep it from doing things. Its scariest asset imo is unironically Waterfall flinches, which are annoying but obviously not consistent. Probably put it with
that has extremely similar issues (i would drop the latter but i won't be too disgusted if the opposite happens
hasnt been doing fantastic to me as i feel it's very matchup dependant, but it's still unmatched at what it does so i think it's fine in A.
I agree with dropping this, it's not bad but it feels like a forced slot both as a spinner and as a dragon type, as there are better options for both. The fact that you technically don't lose too hard to dirge is one thing but you also have no way of really abusing it without a ton of hazards support.

I finally think Kleav, Hippo and Quag are fine where they are but im not against a drop either. Quag noticeably is extremely mu fishy. Ttar isnt doing anything for me and i rarely consider it as a rocker, and other sets dont look hot at all.

Sayonara friends
 
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I don't think we should ever compared this to begin with. Outside of the fact that Tornadus-T indeed had Knock Off back in the days it was also imo way better vs a shit ton of things of the metagame and had tools to mess around vs a ton of checks. Sure Knock Off was valuable but Superpower was great to smack Steel-types and overall a better option than Focus Blast since you were able to ensure damages on foes. Hidden Power was also key af.
I agree that Tornadus-T is one of the best Pokémon in the tier but I'm not entirely sure it deserves the S spot in the current metagame. I think too many things can dent it / have coverage to mess over its Flying-type. Accuracy is smth we should take into account when the best tool of Tornadus-T are respectively 80% and 70% accuracy STAB.
Oh don’t get me wrong, I think there’s absolutely merit to saying Tornadus-T isn’t necessarily S rank; I just think that making the argument based solely/mainly on its accuracy is a bad lens to view it from when that hasn’t prevented it from being S in other metas in the past, at least certainly not by itself.
 

I disagree with the nomination that this Pokémon should drop from A to A-. Cyclizar is still insanely great in many builds where Iron Treads doesn't fit in. The fact that it provides an almost perfect counter to Skeledirge during the whole match is super needed for some teams. It's also the only user of Rapid Spin which doesn't fear Skeledirge. Both Iron Treads and Quaquaval can pressure Skeledirge of course but the same applies the other way. Iron Treads can't switch on Torch Song and doesn't appreciate Will-O-Wisp while Quaquaval doesn't like Will-O-Wisp either and can't beat Skeledirge if it uses Tera. Meanwhile Cyclizar can come with ease, take on Will-O-Wisp, Torch Song or Hex and bother Skeledirge with Knock Off or waste its PP thanks to Draco Meteor. It's also great with Dragon Tail > Draco Meteor (especially in teams that rely on hazards stacking). Imo, Cyclizar is really great when paired with things such as Chesnaught + Gastrodon. I also would like to mention that AV Tera Electric Cyclizar has seen some usages on UUWC in order to check threats such as Thundurus-T and Tornadus-T. Last but not least, Cyclizar typing + AV allows it to check really well threats such as Basculegion or Volcanion (without Body Press). I firmly believe people are not taking enough into consideration how this Pokémon compress a shit ton of roles which are mandatory for many teams.


I agree that Basculegion-F should rise. It lacks solid checks imo and is really effective vs a lot of things in the tier. Imo it's one of those Pokémon that often forces the opponent to use their Tera in order to check it which is key in this generation. Its typing and bulk also allows it to be a decent check to many threats such as Scizor or Arcanine-H thanks to the resistance/immunity to their priorities. This Pokémon is super handy and can really adapt to the need of the team. Both Choice Specs and Choice Scarf variants are great (Scarf can run Modest) and things such as Agility or Substitute sets can come in clutch to clean some games or ease the prediction. Overall a great Pokémon to make progress vs an opponent.


While it's true that both of them are insane Pokémon in UU. I don't think they reach the status (yet) to be considered S-rank material. Even tho Skeledirge typing is great, it's often forced to use Tera which makes it weak to things it's supposed to check (such as Scizor, Tinkaton if Tera Fairy or Thundurus-T, Chesnaught if Tera Water etc..). On the other hand, I agree with Lily on the fact that having 70-80% accuracy STAB sucks ass for Tornadus-T and many times, missing leads you to lose a shit of momentum or even losing Tornadus-T. It's an insane Pokémon, don't get me wrong on that, but having the need to hit those Flying-type moves really sucks sometimes.
 

While it's true that both of them are insane Pokémon in UU. I don't think they reach the status (yet) to be considered S-rank material. Even tho Skeledirge typing is great, it's often forced to use Tera which makes it weak to things it's supposed to check (such as Scizor, Tinkaton if Tera Fairy or Thundurus-T, Chesnaught if Tera Water etc..). On the other hand, I agree with Lily on the fact that having 70-80% accuracy STAB sucks ass for Tornadus-T and many times, missing leads you to lose a shit of momentum or even losing Tornadus-T. It's an insane Pokémon, don't get me wrong on that, but having the need to hit those Flying-type moves really sucks sometimes.
Having time to think about it, both mons are probably moreso S- material to be honest. They have some small flaws keeping them out of the S ranks, but they ultimately have a massive amount of influence on the UU tier. So I propose rather than an S rank nom, an S- nom for both of these mons instead. Torn-T and Dirge are a cut above everything else in A+ and are influential enough to the point where they probably should rise honestly, but I think they should probably go to S- instead of S for the time being, due to having those small but notable flaws.
 
Good whatever time it is in your place. I think there's now the time to discuss something incredibly important.

S TIER

As you are aware, there's not a current S tier pokémon, which is a problem because there's always that mon where the meta is warped around. Right now there's tons of A+ who are possible candidates to it. Let's see them one by one. There's an important metric here to analyze though: TOURNAMENT USAGE. The quarter finals and semifinals were made with the current pool. Let's see what's used in there (2 of these numbers are 1-off due to being interrupted mid-counting by my mother... Not that it matters for my points)

Pokémon usedAmount of teamsUsage%Winrate
TOTAL​
72​
100%
50%​
Hisuan Arcanine :Arcanine:
13​
18.1%
38.46%
Zarude :Zarude-Dada:
10 (1)​
13.9%
60.00%​
Cyclizar :Cyclizar:
10​
13.9%
50.00%​
Gastrodon :Gastrodon-East:
14 (2)​
19.4%
35.71%
Thundurus Incarnate :Tornadus:
5​
6.94%
40.00%​
Slither wing :Slither wing:
2​
2.78%
50.00%​
Kleavor :Scizor:
8​
11.1%
37.50%​
Scizor :Kleavor:
17 (2)​
23.6%
52.94%​
Iron Jugulis
1693319831665.png
3​
4.17%
33.33%​
Quaquaval :Quaquaval:
19 (1)​
26.4%
57.89%​
Haxorus :Haxorus:
4​
5.56%
0.00%​
Hisuan Braviary :Braviary:
1​
1.39%
0.00%​
Tornadus Therian :Tornadus Therian:
25 (2)​
34.7%
48.00%​
Enamorus Therian :Enamorus-Therian:
5​
6.94%
80.00%​
Iron Treads :Iron Treads:
39 (12)​
54.2%
58.97%​
Hisuan Zoroark :Zoroark-Hisui:
4​
5.56%
75.00%​
Slowking :Slowking:
14 (1)​
19.4%
64.29%​
Pawmot :Pikachu:
3​
4.17%
0.00%​
Salamence :Salamence:
6​
8.33%
16.67%​
Alolan Muk :Muk-Alola:
8​
11.1%
50.00%​
Donphan :Donphan:
8​
11.1%
37.50%​
Hisuan Decidueye :Decidueye-Hisui:
3​
4.17%
33.33%​
Scream Tail :Jigglypuff:
12​
16.7%
41.67%​
Volcanion :Volcanion:
13​
18.1%
61.54%
Basculegion-Female :Basculegion-F:
9​
12.5%
33.33%​
Breloom :Breloom:
6​
8.33%
33.33%​
Mew :Mew:
3​
4.17%
33.33%​
Ceruledge :Ceruledge:
4​
5.56%
75.00%​
Skeledirge :Skeledirge:
19 (3)​
26.4%
52.63%​
Tinkaton :Corviknight:
9​
12.5%
33.33%​
Hydreigon :Iron Jugulis:
10​
13.9%
60.00%​
Bellibolt :Bellibolt:
3​
4.17%
100.00%​
Oricorio Pom-Pom :Oricorio Pom-Pom:
1​
1.39%
0.00%​
Alomomola :Luvdisc:
3​
4.17%
66.67%​
Chesnaught :Chesnaught:
10 (1)​
13.9%
50.00%​
Blissey :Chansey:
3​
4.17%
66.67%​
Grimmsnarl :Grimmsnarl:
1​
1.38%
0.00%​
Galarian Moltres :Moltres:
6​
8.33%
16.67%​
Galarian Slowbro :Slowbro:
3​
4.17%
0.00%​
Slowbro :Slowbro-Galar:
2​
2.78%
100.00%​
Hippowdon :Hippowdon:
9 (1)​
12.5%
66.67%​
Iron Leaves :Virizion:
4​
5.56%
75.00%​
Maushold :Maushold-Four:
2​
2.78%
100.00%​
Galarian Zapdos :Zapdos:
12​
16.7%
83.33%
Rotom Heat :Rotom-Heat:
3​
4.17%
33.33%​
Torkoal :Torkoal:
1​
1.39%
100.00%​
Brute Bonnet :Amoonguss:
1​
1.39%
100.00%​
Thundurus Therian :Thundurus-Therian:
16 (3)​
22.2%
56.25%​
Sylveon :Sylveon:
5​
6.94%
60.00%​
Overqwil :Qwilfish:
2​
2.78%
0.00%​
Barraskewda :Barraskewda:
1​
1.39%
0.00%​
Tornadus Incarnate :Thundurus:
1​
1.39%
0.00%​
Hisuan Goodra :Goodra:
5​
6.94%
40.00%​
Gengar :Clefable:
2​
2.78%
50.00%​
Talonflame :Talonflame:
5(1)​
6.94%
60.00%​
Hisuan Typhlosion :Typhlosion:
1​
1.39%
0.00%​
Rillaboom :Rillaboom:
4​
5.56%
50.00%​
Tyranitar :Iron Thorns:
1​
1.39%
0.00%​
Hariyama :Iron hands:
1​
1.39%
100.00%​
Gyarados :Gyarados:
4​
5.56%
50.00%​
Noivern :Noivern:
1​
1.39%
0.00%​
Killowattrel :Kilowattrel:
1​
1.39%
0.00%​
Bombirdier :Bombirdier:
1​
1.39%
0.00%​
Paldean Tauros Aqua :Tauros-Paldea:
1​
1.39%
100.00%​
Quagsire :quagchamppogsire:
3​
4.17%
0.00%​
Decidueye :Decidueye:
1​
1.39%
0.00%​
Wo-Chien :Wo-Chien:
1​
1.39%
0.00%​
Lokix :Lokix:
3 (1)​
4.17%
66.67%​
Gardevoir :Gardevoir:
1​
1.39%
100.00%​
Dudunsparce :Dunsparce:
1​
1.39%
100.00%​


Conclussions from the tournament
  1. We have been overlooking Iron Treads SEVERELY. IS NOT NORMAL to see so many mirrors of a pokémon, nor having an usage over 50%. Is clear this is because Iron treads is the perfect glue pokémon and that's why Landorus-T was considered so dahm good back in gen 7 and 8. Meanwhile Tornadus-T has almost 35% which is also a lot, and both starters have over 25% afaik.
  2. Despite Magnezone being in UU, there it was not a single Magnezone in the tournament. Same for regidrago which often pairs up with Magnezone, while Hisuan Braviary only has one defeat on semis. They're quite likely to drop next month.
  3. Despite not being UU, Gyarados, Sylveon, Thundurus Incarnate and Iron leaves manage to have over 5% usage rate, while Chesnaught and Zarude have over 10%. Those are quite likely to rise up to UU next mont.
  4. Volcanion and specially Galarian Zapdos have an amazing performance, with over 60% WR after more than 10 games. Is specially impressive for Galarian Zapdos to win 10 out of 12 games. Meanwhile Hisuan Arcanine and Gastrodon have quite poor numbers, probably due to missing head smashes and being too passive respectively.
  5. There were 70 participants. That gives a "diversity index" (√[Pokémon - teamslots/(Teams * √ teamslots)]) of 0.6024. That sounds bad until you remember you need 177 pokémon to get an index of 1 in this case. The meta is quite diverse outside the Iron Threads outlier.
With this information I think I can make a personal tier list if we go with the usage rate and the trendings, at least for the S-tier; I KNOW this sample is extremely small but it does show the bigger picture relatively well, specially on the upper end. Going to do the rest next month/later this week.

S
1693280912113.png
Iron Threads: Is the single most used pokémon by a wide margin, and for good reason. It outspeeds every common scarfer at +1, has a great typing, flexibility on items and EVs due to general great stat distribution, and a great movepool to compliment your team's needs. A common issue people has with this is them trying to use it as a wallbreaker like Donphan or a pivot like Cyclizar or Tornadus-T, when in reality this pokémon is mostly an offensive support who wants to use its speed, movepool and typing to do its job no matter the scenario, and it has enough offensive pressence to not being setup fodder most of the time.
1693281248201.png
Tornadus-T:
Also quite high in usage due to being the speed standard. You've already heard why this should be S tier (Fast, Meta warping, splashable, versatile, forces teambuilding to be done in certain way), and no, missing 20-30% of the time is not enough of an excuse to not trust him, it just means you're not good at managing risk. It does miss, but so does H-Arcanine's Head smash and Basculegion-F's Hydro Pump, the latter of which people want to rise to A+ so...

S-
1693281038801.png
Quaquaval: Brasil é o número um, hue, hue, hue... In all seriousness, Quaquaval is the defacto water and fighting type for a simple reason: AQUA STEP. Is a flame charge who can be used as regular STAB, meaning the pokémon has lots of newfound flexibility on both movesets and IVs, because now those jack-of-all-trades stats outside attack means it can have almost anything imaginable, from impish defensive support to jolly offensive wallbreaker; I personally run defensive Adamant to get 1 and 2HKOs that were missing on impish while also not losing too much bulk. Is a big responsible in the rise of tera ghost Gastrodon and why Arcanine is manegeable, but also a bit too reliant on setup to be a true S tier.
1693281083556.png
Skeledirge:
I've expressed my opinion on this before. On retrospective Skeledirge, while better than A+, is not good enough to be an S tier due to lagging in the flexibility apartment. It's a OTP this pokémon and is not very good on HO, and while is never a terrible pick for a team, in a similar vein to Quaquaval is a bit too reliant on setup, being oftentimes forced to participate in an exploitable recovery loop.

Honorable mention

1693322380025.png
There's no way around it, Scizor has incredibly high usage, almost to the level of the starters. That being said I don't feel it is S-rank worth due to being somewhat limited compared to the other top tiers and most importantly, being kinda bodied by a lot of the meta due to how common fire is atm. While it has a good movepool, it severely suffers from 4MSS and is very prediction-reliant. Can see arguments for both S- and A+ rank, but to me it doesn't stand up more than Hisuan Arcanine, Galarian Zapdos (who should be A+) or Thundurus-Therian.

And those were my two cents into the analysis of the potential S-tiers. Farewell and I still can't believe Iron Threads has over 50% Usage.

Edit: More info and fixed some numbers. The conclussions remain though
 
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Monky25

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Moderator
Hello VR enthusiasts, the VR team has a mini update for our current VR as a few changes proposed in this thread have heavy support to change and we felt we should just vote on them now rather than wait until the next update. We also voted on a few less pressing nominations to add substance to the slate. Before we get started, we have some announcements. Queen of Bean has joined the VR team! Be sure to give your congratulations! Also, romanji has stepped down from the VR team. Thank you for your contributions and you are welcome back anytime! This is basically my iconic phrase at this point but onto the changes!

:Kleavor: to B+: I think it was made pretty clear early on that we overranked Kleavor greatly. The speed tier for the boots pivot just is not fast enough to avoid offensive pressure in the metagame and Choice Scarf, while being it’s best and most popular set, is somewhat unreliable due to Stone Axe being an unfortunate move to click in an Iron Treads meta among other foes and being rocks weak kills its longevity. Quaquaval being an extremely common Pokemon and remover especially is painful. It dropped straight to B+ even with many members of the VR team just not rating it so highly because of its apparent flaws. It’s still a solid Pokémon for sure but Kleavor is just not good enough to remain in A.

:Lokix: to B+: One of the largest jumps in viability this entire generation, Lokix has absolutely surged in potency and performance since we put up the VR. Both the Heavy-Duty Boots set and a Life Orb wallbreaker are the main sets running around and do a very good job at being an extremely good revenge killer thanks to Tinted Lens First Impression and the valuable Throat Chop to nail Skeledirge. Its valuable matchup against Hyper Offense cannot be understated and offers some unique and varied moves for each of its sets. Axe Kick on the pivot set covers foes like Iron Treads and Tinkaton, while Leech Life offsets the Life Orb recoil on the other set. Lokix has some great resists in Ghost and Ground vs foes like Skeledirge, Iron Treads, and choice locked Basculegion and overall just slams most of the tier neutrally as well. C+ was a huge underranking and Lokix rises all the way to B+ to show how potent and influential it is in the metagame.

:Muk-Alola: to A-: A change that got unanimous votes, it turns out Alolan Muk is pretty good in the metagame. It’s extremely fat and able to tank attacks from many powerful Pokémon such as Tornadus-T, Basculegion-F, Thundurus-T, Galarian Moltres, and Hydriegon. Muk doesn’t just only tank a hit; it hits hard too with Poison Jab + Knock Off + Drain Punch being a fearsome combo to switch into, enjoying the decline of Tinkaton while still being able to wear down Iron Treads over time. Wish structures and Grassy Terrain teams featuring it remain a strong option in the metagame and even then Muk works just fine outside of these teams too. A lack of recovery can sting but Alolan Muk has proven itself to be a potent option that can join the A ranks.

:Chesnaught: to B+: The VR team has been well aware of Chesnaught’s rise since the VR was put up, taking on dangerous threats like Quaquaval and Iron Treads while making Tyranitar a non meta option these days. It’s our only offensive spiker and does a pretty great job at it against our removal options and has a unique benefit of forcing Thundurus-T to burn tera to hit it. However, Chesnaught’s vulnerability to the ever present Tornadus-T, Skeledirge, and other special attackers and 4MSS wanting Spikes, Body Press, Synthesis, Stone Edge, and Wood Hammer all at once really hurts. Nevertheless, it’s a solid option that rises in the VR and time will tell if Chesnaught continues going higher or remains stagnant.

:Slowbro-Galar: to B+: Another Pokémon we underranked, Galarian Slowbro is much better than B makes it out to be and has gotten a lot more exploration post Meowscarada. Rather than Calm Mind, Galarian Slowbro excels at a 3 attacks defensive set to use it’s crazy coverage to blanket check and offensively pressure many strong foes such as Quaquaval, Scizor, and Galarian Zapdos. Flamethrower for Steel-types, Ice Beam for Flying-types, Grass Knot for Gastrodon, Surf for Arcanine, Foul Play for Gyarados and Iron Leaves, the list goes on. Only Hisuian Goodra is a real safe switch and even then it’s not as common or potent as before. Calm Mind and Nasty Plot still remain good options regardless. B is just far too low to really emphasize how good Galarian Slowbro is and there was a pretty large consensus to raise it.

:Enamorus-Therian: to B: This Pokémon just really isn’t that good. Setup sets are pretty inconsistent with the many numerous options that can just muscle through it due to its low speed and keep it from boosting without dying. As such, you’re better off just running an aoa set instead to use Enamorus’s naturally high power and coverage, but the Speed issues still remain and the great typing can’t be utilized with the lack of utility options Enamorus has access to. Enamorus also has to choose to invest in Special Attack or bulk and still ends up paying the price in one way or another as it hits too weakly or fails to handle foes it normally would like Galarian Zapdos and Quaquaval. Hard to really say this Pokémon is a tier staple and solid option with all its flaws, so B is a much better ranking.

:Magnezone: to B-: There is really just not much of a reason to use this. The point has been brought up a million times but trapping Steel-types (Tinkaton) just isn’t valuable for the top tiers and it’s better to just use another Pokémon that provides more utility. Tinkaton taking a large decline with Iron Treads being the main Steel-type kicks Magnezone down a lot as well, not to mention Gastrodon and Treads are the premier Ground-type options rather than ones Magnezone matches up better against like Donphan and Hippowdon. If you want to use a Weavile or Regidrago or something like that, Magnezone is a good option to use, but outside of that Magnezone doesn’t shine enough to avoid a niche ranking.

:Overqwil: to C+: After the rise of Meowscarada this Pokémon is just not good and has little reason to be used. The most common removal option and Pokémon in tournament play, Iron Treads, shuts you down with its typing and power, keeping Overqwil from acting as a reliable Spikes user. It doesn't check much apart from a few stuff like Breloom, Iron Leaves, and Zarude but one just clicks U-turn and the other two take advantage of the lack of recovery Overqwil has. In general, a few good matchups still fail to make up the flaws of Overqwil and it suffers a pretty hard drop to C+.

We also voted on :Rillaboom:, :Arcanine-Hisui: , and :Goodra-Hisui: but none had the support to rise and the latter two had a near-unanimous consensus to stay in their current ranks. Like other options voted on, these will be taken off the slate, so keep this result in mind. The full update with the rest of the current nominations and future nominations will likely be in September after the tier shifts but it depends on what developments DLC provides by then if there’s new moves or something like that. We all appreciate your posts and thank you for your contributions to this thread!
 
Hello VR enthusiasts, the VR team has a mini update for our current VR as a few changes proposed in this thread have heavy support to change and we felt we should just vote on them now rather than wait until the next update. We also voted on a few less pressing nominations to add substance to the slate. Before we get started, we have some announcements. Queen of Bean has joined the VR team! Be sure to give your congratulations! Also, romanji has stepped down from the VR team. Thank you for your contributions and you are welcome back anytime! This is basically my iconic phrase at this point but onto the changes!

(...) We also voted on :Rillaboom:, :Arcanine-Hisui: , and :Goodra-Hisui: but none had the support to rise and the latter two had a near-unanimous consensus to stay in their current ranks. Like other options voted on, these will be taken off the slate, so keep this result in mind. The full update with the rest of the current nominations and future nominations will likely be in September after the tier shifts but it depends on what developments DLC provides by then if there’s new moves or something like that. We all appreciate your posts and thank you for your contributions to this thread!
Sorry for being rude but... what happened to Zarude? After all, There it was a near universal support to raise it to B+ or even A- due to how good it is in the meta. We even see it having a relatively good performance at top level.
 

avarice

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Sorry for being rude but... what happened to Zarude? After all, There it was a near universal support to raise it to B+ or even A- due to how good it is in the meta. We even see it having a relatively good performance at top level.
team wanted to have a better grasp on it rather than providing a ranking immediately and having to adjust later. as far as used at a high level goes, its best showing was Monky25 vs damien the genius in semis for uuwc where it's really more of a good tera moment. In the same game though, it can be seen how Zarude's lack of power with pivot sets can be tough into foes like Scream Tail. It was pretty disappointing in another game in semifinals too, granted missed whip but shows some of the difficulty of having to accommodate for Zarude's typing a bit here.

Zarude definitely has the potential to move up the VR, it just feels too soon to give a higher accurate ranking with its sets still needing some exploration or at least a better standing in consistency.
 
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team wanted to have a better grasp on it rather than providing a ranking immediately and having to adjust later. as far as used at a high level goes, its best showing was Monky25 vs damien the genius in semis for uuwc where it's really more of a good tera moment. In the same game though, it can be seen how Zarude's lack of power with pivot sets can be tough into foes like Scream Tail. It was pretty disappointing in another game in semifinals too, granted missed whip but shows some of the difficulty of having to accommodate for Zarude's typing a bit here.

Zarude definitely has the potential to move up the VR, it just feels too soon to give a higher accurate ranking with its sets still needing some exploration or at least a better standing in consistency.
I understand, SS Zarude is different to SV Zarude.
When in Sword/Shield it was its consistency on the pivots its strenght, being more of an incredible one trick pony, now in Scarlet/Violet is its versatility of being either a pivot or a setup sweeper, either demanding different answers. That means we don't know what's optimal due to not being able to use prior knowledge on it too well, not even the optimal EVs.

If you ask me, Zarude feels like an A- pokémon, with moderate presence and above average results (10/72 appereances after pools with 60% WR. That's better than a lot of pokémon in A tier) and is definitely rising to UU this week, but is not a meta staple rather and I can see where you can disagree; Power Whip is not very consistent of a move and had a lackluster semis compared to the amazing quarters, but it could just be circumstances. Still, is clear is better than B- and you kinda know it, just not "How much better".
 
:sv/Tinkaton:

Fine w the VR as it stands, but the fact this didn't drop a tier was a tad surprising. I think it's still by all means a good mon between the utility & the god typing though I don't think it's really on par w A+ as it stands. With the non-stop surge of bulky spinduck & ofc iron treads the mon feels notably worse as a rocker and in general I don't see it fitting on nearly as many teams as it did from when it was in its prime. In general I'd say it feels decidedly worse in comparison to how it was pre shifts. I'm fairly certain it was nommed to drop a tier as well so not exactly sure why it stuck around in A+
 
Echoing :iron treads: -> A+

this nomination is nearly solely based on the UUWC usage stats, my god. Ik usage =/= viability, but 50% usage and 62% winrate in the Quarterfinals and 62% usage and 53% winrate in the semis is just insane. While the ground weakness sucks I think there are a couple things that make it stand out from Donphan and Cyclizar.

Versality:

Donphan is usually solely a spinner and Cyclizar is usually just a utility Mon. Treads pulls off SpDef Tank, Offensive, Spinner, and Utility roles.

Other important resistances:

Treads is able to resist Hurricanes and Tera Blast Flyings from Torn-T and Thundy-T respectively, Head Smash from Harcanine, and BP, Quick Attack, and U-Turn from Scizor

So yeah, Treads should go to A+ without a doubt
 
:Decidueye-Hisui:

B- ———> C+
I think the B ranks are definitely too high for this thing. It’s strapped for moves, items, and EVs and it doesn’t matchup with many of the top tiers very well. I suppose it can make a living beating the Donphans and defogging but I am almost more inclined to run offensive sets because triple arrows is a broken move. If anyone has additional comment on this I’d like to hear it because I have never found much success with the boots utility set.
 

pokemonisfun

Banned deucer.
Nominating Zarude to A rank as it's one of the top tier mons IMO for a few reasons:

It's an incredible sweeper with a variety of sets, notably Zapif with an enormous win here in UUWC - avarice calls it mainly a tera win, and while tera was obviously necessary, that's a total understatement still because it simply 6-0d an otherwise good team that was pressuring the Zapif user the whole time.

You can see in this ladder game Zapif just dismantles people who rely on Tornadus to beat it turning a 3-5 into a 3-0. Insane and most other mons cannot do this without a ton more support, bulky sweepers like Oricorio don't have nearly the stats of Zarude, which is a great check/counter to Iron Treads and Basculegion, very prominent threats.

Double recovery and spdef EVs are absolutely key on this set to help turn Salamence from a check to Zarude, into bait. Because it can do that for so many threats - Gapdos for example, Kleavor, and even Overqwil and Muk - being able to flip so many disparate match ups while also keeping incredible bulk/utility is why Zarude is so good.

I compare it a bit to Scizor's tera fire vs Talonflame, a much more common occurrence in previous iterations of our metagame. The difference is that Scizor flipped around really only one match up, vs Talonflame, but it was a super common match up. Zarude flips a ton of match ups, although they are not as common (but overall, still even more common probably). It also has huge bulk compared to Scizor.

Zapif is not the only prominent set though - Tera Blast Fire Swords Dance has absolutely destroyed some people like in this UUWC game and I've lost to it four times in row on the ladder too because once again, it can flip some critical MU, notably against Chesnaught here.

The ability to monkyflip MUs + have incredible stats and sweeping power make Zarude clearly in the A ranks to me.

To be blunt, I think the only reason it wasn't voted up yet is lag from voters. B- is absolutely ridiculous, this one was a big miss for an otherwise fairly on point VR.
 
Stats for this month are based solely on August usage, with a 4.52% rise/drop cutoff. Full stats will be up shortly.

Code:
Combined usage for UU (1630 stats)
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1    | Iron Treads        | 43.863% |
| 2    | Skeledirge         | 26.945% |
| 3    | Quaquaval          | 23.720% |
| 4    | Scizor             | 22.251% |
| 5    | Kleavor            | 19.952% |
| 6    | Thundurus-Therian  | 19.265% |
| 7    | Zapdos-Galar       | 18.787% |
| 8    | Donphan            | 17.157% |
| 9    | Hydreigon          | 16.934% |
| 10   | Arcanine-Hisui     | 16.877% |
| 11   | Tornadus-Therian   | 15.432% |
| 12   | Basculegion-F      | 13.275% |
| 13   | Breloom            | 12.773% |
| 14   | Goodra-Hisui       | 12.066% |
| 15   | Gastrodon          | 11.989% |
| 16   | Tinkaton           | 11.433% |
| 17   | Slowking           | 11.363% |
| 18   | Enamorus-Therian   | 10.842% |
| 19   | Volcanion          | 10.175% |
| 20   | Muk-Alola          |  9.796% |
| 21   | Zoroark-Hisui      |  9.323% |
| 22   | Salamence          |  9.230% |
| 23   | Cyclizar           |  9.124% |
| 24   | Ceruledge          |  8.895% |
| 25   | Lokix              |  8.522% |
| 26   | Haxorus            |  8.501% |
| 27   | Chesnaught         |  7.643% |
| 28   | Scream Tail        |  7.439% |
| 29   | Regidrago          |  6.937% |
| 30   | Rillaboom          |  6.662% |
| 31   | Maushold           |  6.441% |
| 32   | Hippowdon          |  6.346% |
| 33   | Gengar             |  6.341% |
| 34   | Quagsire           |  5.997% |
| 35   | Gyarados           |  5.955% |
| 36   | Alomomola          |  5.530% |
| 37   | Talonflame         |  5.517% |
| 38   | Moltres-Galar      |  5.372% |
| 39   | Magnezone          |  5.087% |
| 40   | Tyranitar          |  4.979% |
| 41   | Iron Jugulis       |  4.404% |
| 42   | Overqwil           |  4.110% |
| 43   | Hawlucha           |  3.907% |
| 44   | Braviary-Hisui     |  3.684% |
| 45   | Basculegion        |  3.635% |
| 46   | Blissey            |  3.470% |
| 47   | Zarude             |  3.335% |
| 48   | Iron Leaves        |  3.195% |
| 49   | Slither Wing       |  3.055% |
| 50   | Thundurus          |  2.946% |
| 51   | Armarouge          |  2.768% |
| 52   | Polteageist        |  2.702% |
| 53   | Pawmot             |  2.675% |
| 54   | Mew                |  2.591% |
| 55   | Lycanroc-Dusk      |  2.581% |
| 56   | Slowbro            |  2.500% |
| 57   | Indeedee           |  2.120% |
| 58   | Grimmsnarl         |  1.861% |
| 59   | Bisharp            |  1.737% |
| 60   | Slowbro-Galar      |  1.728% |
| 61   | Azelf              |  1.688% |
| 62   | Tauros-Paldea-Aqua |  1.651% |
| 63   | Wo-Chien           |  1.600% |
| 64   | Dragalge           |  1.583% |
| 65   | Iron Thorns        |  1.577% |
| 66   | Toedscruel         |  1.532% |
| 67   | Espeon             |  1.508% |
| 68   | Staraptor          |  1.499% |
| 69   | Sylveon            |  1.399% |
| 70   | Mimikyu            |  1.320% |
| 71   | Rotom-Heat         |  1.284% |
| 72   | Weavile            |  1.267% |
| 73   | Decidueye-Hisui    |  1.216% |
| 74   | Gallade            |  1.189% |
| 75   | Gardevoir          |  1.182% |
| 76   | Forretress         |  1.141% |
| 77   | Noivern            |  1.121% |
| 78   | Klefki             |  1.095% |
| 79   | Brambleghast       |  1.031% |
| 80   | Decidueye          |  1.020% |
| 81   | Diancie            |  1.016% |
| 82   | Electrode-Hisui    |  0.879% |
| 83   | Ditto              |  0.875% |
| 84   | Typhlosion-Hisui   |  0.822% |
| 85   | Masquerain         |  0.762% |
| 86   | Cloyster           |  0.758% |
| 87   | Oricorio-Pom-Pom   |  0.756% |
| 88   | Heracross          |  0.722% |
| 89   | Torkoal            |  0.719% |
| 90   | Krookodile         |  0.663% |
| 91   | Toxtricity         |  0.658% |
| 92   | Lucario            |  0.633% |
| 93   | Grafaiai           |  0.626% |
| 94   | Coalossal          |  0.605% |
| 95   | Meowscarada        |  0.596% |
| 96   | Bellibolt          |  0.529% |
| 97   | Frosmoth           |  0.512% |
| 98   | Rotom-Mow          |  0.503% |
| 99   | Florges            |  0.484% |
| 100  | Brute Bonnet       |  0.479% |
| 101  | Sableye            |  0.472% |
| 102  | Spiritomb          |  0.469% |
| 103  | Greninja           |  0.461% |
| 104  | Salazzle           |  0.439% |
| 105  | Pincurchin         |  0.432% |
| 106  | Meloetta           |  0.410% |
| 107  | Cetitan            |  0.394% |
| 108  | Indeedee-F         |  0.392% |
| 109  | Arboliva           |  0.389% |
| 110  | Kilowattrel        |  0.347% |
| 111  | Hoopa              |  0.323% |
| 112  | Lycanroc           |  0.321% |
| 113  | Dudunsparce        |  0.319% |
| 114  | Tauros-Paldea-Blaze |  0.301% |
| 115  | Drifblim           |  0.287% |
| 116  | Inteleon           |  0.280% |
| 117  | Spidops            |  0.279% |
| 118  | Tornadus           |  0.272% |
| 119  | Persian-Alola      |  0.270% |
| 120  | Palossand          |  0.266% |
| 121  | Bronzong           |  0.265% |
| 122  | Articuno-Galar     |  0.255% |
| 123  | Tsareena           |  0.252% |
| 124  | Abomasnow          |  0.244% |
| 125  | Tatsugiri          |  0.233% |
| 126  | Jumpluff           |  0.228% |
| 127  | Oricorio-Sensu     |  0.226% |
| 128  | Hariyama           |  0.222% |
| 129  | Cryogonal          |  0.221% |
| 130  | Altaria            |  0.218% |
| 131  | Houndstone         |  0.213% |
| 132  | Eelektross         |  0.197% |
| 133  | Umbreon            |  0.193% |
| 134  | Barraskewda        |  0.191% |
| 135  | Naclstack          |  0.190% |
| 136  | Revavroom          |  0.186% |
| 137  | Uxie               |  0.186% |
| 138  | Vaporeon           |  0.166% |
| 139  | Moltres            |  0.162% |
| 140  | Whiscash           |  0.161% |
| 141  | Glastrier          |  0.155% |
| 142  | Scovillain         |  0.154% |
| 143  | Jolteon            |  0.145% |
| 144  | Toxicroak          |  0.144% |
| 145  | Delphox            |  0.141% |
| 146  | Arcanine           |  0.131% |
| 147  | Avalugg-Hisui      |  0.131% |
| 148  | Goodra             |  0.129% |
| 149  | Froslass           |  0.122% |
| 150  | Orthworm           |  0.120% |
| 151  | Primeape           |  0.114% |
| 152  | Mabosstiff         |  0.112% |
| 153  | Charizard          |  0.109% |
| 154  | Chansey            |  0.107% |
| 155  | Flamigo            |  0.103% |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
Torkoal moved from RU to OU

Hoopa-Unbound moved from OU to UU
Roaring Moon moved from OU to UU
Ursaluna moved from OU to UU

Gyarados moved from RUBL to UU
Alomomola moved from RU to UU
Chesnaught moved from RU to UU
Tyranitar moved from RU to UU

Braviary-Hisui moved from UU to RU
Overqwil moved from UU to RU
I feel is important to adress those meta changes.

  1. What will you do to the new dropping mons? I predict UUBL limbo for all of them considering what happened to Iron hands and Hisuan Lilligant.
    • Roaring Moon is almost as fast as Tornadus-T and is stronger than Galarian Zapdos, with oddly high versatility and bulk. Don't expect this to last.
    • Ursaluna is just ground Iron Hands, just replacing STABs and being immune to burns. We know what happened to Iron hands and this thing is stronger, so...
    • Hoopa Unbound might be fine due to that 80 speed, but I seriously doubt it due to its massive movepool and being a mix attacker.
  2. No Torkoal means Brute bonnet's niche is now completely deleted because there's no longer reason to use it over Zarude or Breloom. Brute Bonnet was already flimsy on uses so it makes sense.
  3. It's clear Skeledirge, Quaquaval and specially Iron Treads are above the rest. Seriously, 54% tournament usage with 59% WR, splashable and versatile as a swiss knife and the biggest reason Alomomola stall is resurging as a style (That's why both Chesnaught and Alomomola rose up to UU), This Tusk knock off is the perfect support for UU. How is this thing not at the very least A+?
 
I feel is important to adress those meta changes.

  1. What will you do to the new dropping mons? I predict UUBL limbo for all of them considering what happened to Iron hands and Hisuan Lilligant.
    • Roaring Moon is almost as fast as Tornadus-T and is stronger than Galarian Zapdos, with oddly high versatility and bulk. Don't expect this to last.
Roaring moon at least kinda has defensive answers, the other two just don't have them. Tornadus-T is already a questionable mon down here as it is as well, so while I don't think roaring moon will last, Unbound and Ursaluna are definitely getting banned first and definitely will be quickbanned
 

Monky25

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Hello everyone. We've got a few announcements to make in regards to the VR. First, Hoopa-Unbound, Roaring Moon, and Ursaluna have been added to the new drops section where they will remain until they either get voted into a ranking or get banned. Also, since Torkoal rose to OU, it has been removed from the VR. Because its viability depended on sun a lot and is generally not a good Pokemon that has no reason to be used compared to other Ghost-types, Hisuian Typhlosion has been removed from the VR. Several members think Brute Bonnet still has a niche and want to take it to a vote so it remains. Please be respectful regarding Brute Bonnet remaining on the VR for NOW and do not make any rude posts. Also, can we please stop asking why Pokemon like Iron Treads, Zarude, and Tinkaton didn't get voted on in the mini update? We established that it was meant to be a small mini vote and the rest of the nominations will be left to a vote that will hopefully take place later this month. Iron Treads and Tinkaton are very high tier Pokemon that shouldn't be voted in a mini update, rather it being better to examine them in a major update, and avarice already answered why Zarude wasn't voted on. This is the reasoning and unless something changes these Pokemon won't be voted on until later this month. Lastly, please take some time to actually play with the drops before making nominations. These are pretty significant changes and making a premature nomination isn't the way to get your point across. We hope you enjoy the new meta!
 
Here are the results of the council test about the latest 3 drops.

That means that we now need to figure out where do we put the new UU pokémons Ursaluna and Hoopa-Unbound in the ranks. There I go with my proposals

imagen_2023-09-03_223033470.png
Hoopa-Unbound to A+. This evil genie is a very dangerous pokémon. 160|170 offenses with great 80|130 special bulk and insane coverage means it's quite good at just breaking the entire tier, most notably Thundurus-T, Skeledirge, Gastrodon, Basculegion and special Salamence; It just lacks counters. The reason it was allowed in UU to begin with is that mediocre 80 speed stat alongside the quadruple weakness to bug meaning it's not great at sweeping, but It singlehandedly disallows Stall and you just can't guess where their attacks will come from even after seeing one of them due to having mix offenses. It is very support dependant, but so is Banded Scizor/Hisuan Arcanine/Quaquaval (Yes, Banded Quaquaval is trending right now) or Specs Basculegion/Hydreigon/Volcanion, all sets commonly used on top ladder btw.

1693791454540.png
Ursaluna to A-. Ursaluna is just too slow. It has great power, a great hability and great raw bulk, but its speed and vulnerability to residual damage are just nasty. I would recommend not using flame orb but leftovers, while having guts as an assurance against skeledirge. The pokémon in a lot of ways is like Iron hands, but guts + flame orb is way worse than a free 30% attack boost from booster energy, while lacking STAB Drain punch means you're quite prediction reliant and STAB 210 BP Facade isn't that good with Basculegion and Skeledirge in so many teams. Is an overall good addition to the tier considering we lacked dedicated ground type wallbreakers, with almost no defensive counterplay but more than enough offensive counter in a tier where stall/semistall isn't common.

Also, can we please stop asking why Pokemon like Iron Treads, Zarude, and Tinkaton didn't get voted on in the mini update? We established that it was meant to be a small mini vote and the rest of the nominations will be left to a vote that will hopefully take place later this month. Iron Treads and Tinkaton are very high tier Pokemon that shouldn't be voted in a mini update, rather it being better to examine them in a major update, and avarice already answered why Zarude wasn't voted on.

In all seriousness, I just wanted to discuss tier trendings based on the august UU tournament, and Treads stands like a sore thumb here. Sorry Monky, it wasn't my intention to drive you bananas... Not really sorry for that bad pun though.
 
1000005004.png
B+ -> B
In theory it only needs to click Stone Axe as suicide lead to set up rocks and its golden but I find it rather underwhelming. So in my experience I have found it as a lead to be fairly mid especially with Iron Treads around. Booster Energy Treads outspeeds Scarf and threatens 2HKO with EQ or Knocking Off your Scarf or even Rapid Spinning your rocks. Quac threatens Aqua Step, Donphan also matches decently. Being Stealth Rock weak itself sucks. It's also just stupidly easy to revenge kill if it gets to live. It just hasnt felt particularily impactful with the spinners and other rockers in the tier.
 
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View attachment 548414 B+ -> B
In theory it only needs to click Stone Axe as suicide lead to set up rocks and its golden but I find it rather underwhelming. So in my experience I have found it as a lead to be fairly mid especially with Iron Treads around. Booster Energy Treads outspeeds Scarf and threatens 2HKO with EQ or Knocking Off your Scarf or even Rapid Spinning your rocks. Quac threatens Aqua Step, Donphan also matches decently. Being Stealth Rock weak itself sucks. It's also just stupidly easy to revenge kill if it gets to live. It just hasnt felt particularily impactful with the spinners and other rockers in the tier.
Not to mention it actually is soft check by Iron Treads, despite having a SE Close combat and usually being scarf aka faster due to the defense drop. I mean, just look at this...

252 Atk Kleavor Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Treads: 230-272 (71.6 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Iron Treads Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Kleavor: 120-142 (42.7 - 50.5%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO

0 Atk Iron Treads Earthquake vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Kleavor: 186-219 (66.1 - 77.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

The only way of winning the trade is to burn your tera turn 1... which sounds terrible because it is, it's a very good way of allowing a sweep later down the road. I would say is competent enough to be B+ though, but there's a reason it's not A-ranked, because it's way too matchup-reliant to work. I was just explaining why the pokémon descended 2 subranks.
 
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ThatOneApple

A Bit Fruity
is a Community Contributor
:Bellibolt:C+ -> B/Maybe even B+ ngl

This mon is actually solid, its bulk and resists are quite useful for dealing with scary threats like :tornadus-therian:, :zapdos-galar:, :lokix: , and even :arcanine-hisui: and :quaquaval: kinda, while also helping play around things like :scizor: bullet punch or maybe be an emergency way of beating :maushold: with static para slowing it down. Speaking of static, while it does take a sizable amount of damage from a some of the things it comes in on, the contact moves hitting it give a good way to fish for paralysis on the previously stated mons.

:Zapdos-galar: is normally a scary scarfer capable of outspeeding and threatening a lot of things with stab brave bird while pivoting out with u turn, but if you send bellibolt, theres the chance that the zapdos gets para'd, in which case its threat level drops drastically. In fact gzap cant even 2hko you from full ever (252 Atk Zapdos-Galar Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Bellibolt: 151-178 (35.7 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO), so bellibolt is just a very good answer to it.

:tornadus-therian: usually the go to fast pivot for teams, but bellibolt sits on most of its sets, and if torn tries to u turn out, it risks getting paralyzed and losing its speed advantage over a lot of the tier.

:arcanine-hisui: is just shy of the 2hko with head smash, (252 Atk Arcanine-Hisui Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Bellibolt: 178-210 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO) so while i wouldnt recommend bellibolt as your only answer to it, it can work in emergencies, and static para can make the likelyhood of it landing head smashes even lower. Also, with 36 sp atk evs you threaten an ohko with muddy water (36 SpA Bellibolt Muddy Water vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Arcanine-Hisui: 332-392 (100.3 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO)

:Quaquaval: cant get a 2hko without an sd (252 Atk Quaquaval Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Bellibolt: 145-172 (34.3 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO), meaning it cant break effectively without risking getting heavily damage/getting taken out or getting paralyzed, and if it clicks cc, bellibolt has a very solid chance to ohko it with volt (36 SpA Bellibolt Volt Switch vs. -1 0 HP / 4 SpD Quaquaval: 306-362 (98.3 - 116.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO).

Checking mons like this gives bellibolt a very solid role against offensive mons that are threatening to many teams. Providing pretty decent speed control without even needing a move that paralyzes things is a pretty neat trait as well, especially since it can paralyze things for clicking u turn, which is big for some mons that are threatened by various fast pivots. Examples being :lokix:, who loves having things slowed down so that it can click leech life more and be less reliant on first impression, :kleavor:, who really appreciates the birds that outrun it being slowed down so it can actually force them out rather than be forced out by them, and maybe :hoopa-unbound:, i havent experimented with this much, but it feels like it would like having things slowed and really loves things that punish u turn, which bellibolt does by just existing.

Heres the set ive been running
Frob (Bellibolt) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Static
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Muddy Water
- Tera Blast
- Slack Off


Volt Switch is just for pivoting, nice for when you come in on a :tornadus-therian: bleakwind storm and want to grab momentum after its forced out (bonus points if it u turns and gets para'd lol)
Muddy water is good for grounds as it 2 shots all of them (except :gastrodon: but im getting there) which means volt is easier to click.
Tera grass blast is just good for :gastrodon:, tho tbh if you want you could prob drop it for acid spray or discharge maybe as gastro is rather abusable, can also change the tera type if you drop tera blast too.
Slack off is pretty self explanatory lol.

Other calcs that i find neat
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Bellibolt: 151-178 (35.7 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Bellibolt: 187-221 (44.3 - 52.3%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Bellibolt: 148-175 (35 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Bellibolt: 159-187 (37.6 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Some replays of Bellibolt from UUWC
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-709635
Bellibolt didnt do much here but people able to absorb sciz bullet punch and drawing in the donphan to kill it with muddy water to end the game was good

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-710003
From turn 17-22, it kept the nasty plot torn at bay while healing, then hit torn hard with volt to bring in talon to threaten it. Also kept torn from trying at turn 12 with just its presence in the back

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-712465
Turn 1 para on torn let lokix go crazy to soften up the team for gzap (also kept drawing in gastro for lokix to abuse)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-713763
Got a para and 60% on treads turn one and grabbed momentum on torn few times.

(Probably not too relevant but i figured itd be neat to point out that bellibolt had a 100% win rate in UUWC)

Anyways, heres a team i made with bellibolt if anyone wants to try it
:Lokix: :Gastrodon: :Tornadus-therian: :Skeledirge: :iron treads: :Bellibolt:
https://pokepast.es/84d328074830014e

The reason i nommed it for a pretty big jump is that i feel its consistency is at least on par with the mons in B rank and imo probably higher (id even say its more consistent than some of the B+ ranks like :tyranitar: or :quagsire: but i might be crazy)

Now i can understand if people are against a big jump or if the viability rankings are gonna be a bit more hesitant to raise a mon thats so low based off what one person says, but im telling you, bellibolt is the belligoat.
 
:Bellibolt:C+ -> B/Maybe even B+ ngl

This mon is actually solid, its bulk and resists are quite useful for dealing with scary threats like :tornadus-therian:, :zapdos-galar:, :lokix: , and even :arcanine-hisui: and :quaquaval: kinda, while also helping play around things like :scizor: bullet punch or maybe be an emergency way of beating :maushold: with static para slowing it down. Speaking of static, while it does take a sizable amount of damage from a some of the things it comes in on, the contact moves hitting it give a good way to fish for paralysis on the previously stated mons.

:Zapdos-galar: is normally a scary scarfer capable of outspeeding and threatening a lot of things with stab brave bird while pivoting out with u turn, but if you send bellibolt, theres the chance that the zapdos gets para'd, in which case its threat level drops drastically. In fact gzap cant even 2hko you from full ever (252 Atk Zapdos-Galar Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Bellibolt: 151-178 (35.7 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO), so bellibolt is just a very good answer to it.

:tornadus-therian: usually the go to fast pivot for teams, but bellibolt sits on most of its sets, and if torn tries to u turn out, it risks getting paralyzed and losing its speed advantage over a lot of the tier.

:arcanine-hisui: is just shy of the 2hko with head smash, (252 Atk Arcanine-Hisui Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Bellibolt: 178-210 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO) so while i wouldnt recommend bellibolt as your only answer to it, it can work in emergencies, and static para can make the likelyhood of it landing head smashes even lower. Also, with 36 sp atk evs you threaten an ohko with muddy water (36 SpA Bellibolt Muddy Water vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Arcanine-Hisui: 332-392 (100.3 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO)

:Quaquaval: cant get a 2hko without an sd (252 Atk Quaquaval Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Bellibolt: 145-172 (34.3 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO), meaning it cant break effectively without risking getting heavily damage/getting taken out or getting paralyzed, and if it clicks cc, bellibolt has a very solid chance to ohko it with volt (36 SpA Bellibolt Volt Switch vs. -1 0 HP / 4 SpD Quaquaval: 306-362 (98.3 - 116.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO).

Checking mons like this gives bellibolt a very solid role against offensive mons that are threatening to many teams. Providing pretty decent speed control without even needing a move that paralyzes things is a pretty neat trait as well, especially since it can paralyze things for clicking u turn, which is big for some mons that are threatened by various fast pivots. Examples being :lokix:, who loves having things slowed down so that it can click leech life more and be less reliant on first impression, :kleavor:, who really appreciates the birds that outrun it being slowed down so it can actually force them out rather than be forced out by them, and maybe :hoopa-unbound:, i havent experimented with this much, but it feels like it would like having things slowed and really loves things that punish u turn, which bellibolt does by just existing.

Heres the set ive been running
Frob (Bellibolt) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Static
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Muddy Water
- Tera Blast
- Slack Off


Volt Switch is just for pivoting, nice for when you come in on a :tornadus-therian: bleakwind storm and want to grab momentum after its forced out (bonus points if it u turns and gets para'd lol)
Muddy water is good for grounds as it 2 shots all of them (except :gastrodon: but im getting there) which means volt is easier to click.
Tera grass blast is just good for :gastrodon:, tho tbh if you want you could prob drop it for acid spray or discharge maybe as gastro is rather abusable, can also change the tera type if you drop tera blast too.
Slack off is pretty self explanatory lol.

Other calcs that i find neat
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Bellibolt: 151-178 (35.7 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Bellibolt: 187-221 (44.3 - 52.3%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Bellibolt: 148-175 (35 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Bellibolt: 159-187 (37.6 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Some replays of Bellibolt from UUWC
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-709635
Bellibolt didnt do much here but people able to absorb sciz bullet punch and drawing in the donphan to kill it with muddy water to end the game was good

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-710003
From turn 17-22, it kept the nasty plot torn at bay while healing, then hit torn hard with volt to bring in talon to threaten it. Also kept torn from trying at turn 12 with just its presence in the back

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-712465
Turn 1 para on torn let lokix go crazy to soften up the team for gzap (also kept drawing in gastro for lokix to abuse)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-713763
Got a para and 60% on treads turn one and grabbed momentum on torn few times.

(Probably not too relevant but i figured itd be neat to point out that bellibolt had a 100% win rate in UUWC)

Anyways, heres a team i made with bellibolt if anyone wants to try it
:Lokix: :Gastrodon: :Tornadus-therian: :Skeledirge: :iron treads: :Bellibolt:
https://pokepast.es/84d328074830014e

The reason i nommed it for a pretty big jump is that i feel its consistency is at least on par with the mons in B rank and imo probably higher (id even say its more consistent than some of the B+ ranks like :tyranitar: or :quagsire: but i might be crazy)

Now i can understand if people are against a big jump or if the viability rankings are gonna be a bit more hesitant to raise a mon thats so low based off what one person says, but im telling you, bellibolt is the belligoat.
Big Stall 2: It’s Stalling Time
 
Good whatever time it is in your place. I think there's now the time to discuss something incredibly important.

S TIER

As you are aware, there's not a current S tier pokémon, which is a problem because there's always that mon where the meta is warped around. Right now there's tons of A+ who are possible candidates to it. Let's see them one by one. There's an important metric here to analyze though: TOURNAMENT USAGE. The quarter finals and semifinals were made with the current pool. Let's see what's used in there (2 of these numbers are 1-off due to being interrupted mid-counting by my mother... Not that it matters for my points)

Pokémon usedAmount of teamsUsage%Winrate
TOTAL​
72​
100%
50%​
Hisuan Arcanine :Arcanine:
13​
18.1%
38.46%
Zarude :Zarude-Dada:
10 (1)​
13.9%
60.00%​
Cyclizar :Cyclizar:
10​
13.9%
50.00%​
Gastrodon :Gastrodon-East:
14 (2)​
19.4%
35.71%
Thundurus Incarnate :Tornadus:
5​
6.94%
40.00%​
Slither wing :Slither wing:
2​
2.78%
50.00%​
Kleavor :Scizor:
8​
11.1%
37.50%​
Scizor :Kleavor:
17 (2)​
23.6%
52.94%​
Iron Jugulis View attachment 546598
3​
4.17%
33.33%​
Quaquaval :Quaquaval:
19 (1)​
26.4%
57.89%​
Haxorus :Haxorus:
4​
5.56%
0.00%​
Hisuan Braviary :Braviary:
1​
1.39%
0.00%​
Tornadus Therian :Tornadus Therian:
25 (2)​
34.7%
48.00%​
Enamorus Therian :Enamorus-Therian:
5​
6.94%
80.00%​
Iron Treads :Iron Treads:
39 (12)​
54.2%
58.97%​
Hisuan Zoroark :Zoroark-Hisui:
4​
5.56%
75.00%​
Slowking :Slowking:
14 (1)​
19.4%
64.29%​
Pawmot :Pikachu:
3​
4.17%
0.00%​
Salamence :Salamence:
6​
8.33%
16.67%​
Alolan Muk :Muk-Alola:
8​
11.1%
50.00%​
Donphan :Donphan:
8​
11.1%
37.50%​
Hisuan Decidueye :Decidueye-Hisui:
3​
4.17%
33.33%​
Scream Tail :Jigglypuff:
12​
16.7%
41.67%​
Volcanion :Volcanion:
13​
18.1%
61.54%
Basculegion-Female :Basculegion-F:
9​
12.5%
33.33%​
Breloom :Breloom:
6​
8.33%
33.33%​
Mew :Mew:
3​
4.17%
33.33%​
Ceruledge :Ceruledge:
4​
5.56%
75.00%​
Skeledirge :Skeledirge:
19 (3)​
26.4%
52.63%​
Tinkaton :Corviknight:
9​
12.5%
33.33%​
Hydreigon :Iron Jugulis:
10​
13.9%
60.00%​
Bellibolt :Bellibolt:
3​
4.17%
100.00%​
Oricorio Pom-Pom :Oricorio Pom-Pom:
1​
1.39%
0.00%​
Alomomola :Luvdisc:
3​
4.17%
66.67%​
Chesnaught :Chesnaught:
10 (1)​
13.9%
50.00%​
Blissey :Chansey:
3​
4.17%
66.67%​
Grimmsnarl :Grimmsnarl:
1​
1.38%
0.00%​
Galarian Moltres :Moltres:
6​
8.33%
16.67%​
Galarian Slowbro :Slowbro:
3​
4.17%
0.00%​
Slowbro :Slowbro-Galar:
2​
2.78%
100.00%​
Hippowdon :Hippowdon:
9 (1)​
12.5%
66.67%​
Iron Leaves :Virizion:
4​
5.56%
75.00%​
Maushold :Maushold-Four:
2​
2.78%
100.00%​
Galarian Zapdos :Zapdos:
12​
16.7%
83.33%
Rotom Heat :Rotom-Heat:
3​
4.17%
33.33%​
Torkoal :Torkoal:
1​
1.39%
100.00%​
Brute Bonnet :Amoonguss:
1​
1.39%
100.00%​
Thundurus Therian :Thundurus-Therian:
16 (3)​
22.2%
56.25%​
Sylveon :Sylveon:
5​
6.94%
60.00%​
Overqwil :Qwilfish:
2​
2.78%
0.00%​
Barraskewda :Barraskewda:
1​
1.39%
0.00%​
Tornadus Incarnate :Thundurus:
1​
1.39%
0.00%​
Hisuan Goodra :Goodra:
5​
6.94%
40.00%​
Gengar :Clefable:
2​
2.78%
50.00%​
Talonflame :Talonflame:
5(1)​
6.94%
60.00%​
Hisuan Typhlosion :Typhlosion:
1​
1.39%
0.00%​
Rillaboom :Rillaboom:
4​
5.56%
50.00%​
Tyranitar :Iron Thorns:
1​
1.39%
0.00%​
Hariyama :Iron hands:
1​
1.39%
100.00%​
Gyarados :Gyarados:
4​
5.56%
50.00%​
Noivern :Noivern:
1​
1.39%
0.00%​
Killowattrel :Kilowattrel:
1​
1.39%
0.00%​
Bombirdier :Bombirdier:
1​
1.39%
0.00%​
Paldean Tauros Aqua :Tauros-Paldea:
1​
1.39%
100.00%​
Quagsire :quagchamppogsire:
3​
4.17%
0.00%​
Decidueye :Decidueye:
1​
1.39%
0.00%​
Wo-Chien :Wo-Chien:
1​
1.39%
0.00%​
Lokix :Lokix:
3 (1)​
4.17%
66.67%​
Gardevoir :Gardevoir:
1​
1.39%
100.00%​
Dudunsparce :Dunsparce:
1​
1.39%
100.00%​


Conclussions from the tournament
  1. We have been overlooking Iron Treads SEVERELY. IS NOT NORMAL to see so many mirrors of a pokémon, nor having an usage over 50%. Is clear this is because Iron treads is the perfect glue pokémon and that's why Landorus-T was considered so dahm good back in gen 7 and 8. Meanwhile Tornadus-T has almost 35% which is also a lot, and both starters have over 25% afaik.
  2. Despite Magnezone being in UU, there it was not a single Magnezone in the tournament. Same for regidrago which often pairs up with Magnezone, while Hisuan Braviary only has one defeat on semis. They're quite likely to drop next month.
  3. Despite not being UU, Gyarados, Sylveon, Thundurus Incarnate and Iron leaves manage to have over 5% usage rate, while Chesnaught and Zarude have over 10%. Those are quite likely to rise up to UU next mont.
  4. Volcanion and specially Galarian Zapdos have an amazing performance, with over 60% WR after more than 10 games. Is specially impressive for Galarian Zapdos to win 10 out of 12 games. Meanwhile Hisuan Arcanine and Gastrodon have quite poor numbers, probably due to missing head smashes and being too passive respectively.
  5. There were 70 participants. That gives a "diversity index" (√[Pokémon - teamslots/(Teams * √ teamslots)]) of 0.6024. That sounds bad until you remember you need 177 pokémon to get an index of 1 in this case. The meta is quite diverse outside the Iron Threads outlier.
With this information I think I can make a personal tier list if we go with the usage rate and the trendings, at least for the S-tier; I KNOW this sample is extremely small but it does show the bigger picture relatively well, specially on the upper end. Going to do the rest next month/later this week.

S
View attachment 546488Iron Threads: Is the single most used pokémon by a wide margin, and for good reason. It outspeeds every common scarfer at +1, has a great typing, flexibility on items and EVs due to general great stat distribution, and a great movepool to compliment your team's needs. A common issue people has with this is them trying to use it as a wallbreaker like Donphan or a pivot like Cyclizar or Tornadus-T, when in reality this pokémon is mostly an offensive support who wants to use its speed, movepool and typing to do its job no matter the scenario, and it has enough offensive pressence to not being setup fodder most of the time.
View attachment 546491 Tornadus-T: Also quite high in usage due to being the speed standard. You've already heard why this should be S tier (Fast, Meta warping, splashable, versatile, forces teambuilding to be done in certain way), and no, missing 20-30% of the time is not enough of an excuse to not trust him, it just means you're not good at managing risk. It does miss, but so does H-Arcanine's Head smash and Basculegion-F's Hydro Pump, the latter of which people want to rise to A+ so...

S-
View attachment 546489Quaquaval: Brasil é o número um, hue, hue, hue... In all seriousness, Quaquaval is the defacto water and fighting type for a simple reason: AQUA STEP. Is a flame charge who can be used as regular STAB, meaning the pokémon has lots of newfound flexibility on both movesets and IVs, because now those jack-of-all-trades stats outside attack means it can have almost anything imaginable, from impish defensive support to jolly offensive wallbreaker; I personally run defensive Adamant to get 1 and 2HKOs that were missing on impish while also not losing too much bulk. Is a big responsible in the rise of tera ghost Gastrodon and why Arcanine is manegeable, but also a bit too reliant on setup to be a true S tier.
View attachment 546490Skeledirge: I've expressed my opinion on this before. On retrospective Skeledirge, while better than A+, is not good enough to be an S tier due to lagging in the flexibility apartment. It's a OTP this pokémon and is not very good on HO, and while is never a terrible pick for a team, in a similar vein to Quaquaval is a bit too reliant on setup, being oftentimes forced to participate in an exploitable recovery loop.

Honorable mention

View attachment 546624There's no way around it, Scizor has incredibly high usage, almost to the level of the starters. That being said I don't feel it is S-rank worth due to being somewhat limited compared to the other top tiers and most importantly, being kinda bodied by a lot of the meta due to how common fire is atm. While it has a good movepool, it severely suffers from 4MSS and is very prediction-reliant. Can see arguments for both S- and A+ rank, but to me it doesn't stand up more than Hisuan Arcanine, Galarian Zapdos (who should be A+) or Thundurus-Therian.

And those were my two cents into the analysis of the potential S-tiers. Farewell and I still can't believe Iron Threads has over 50% Usage.

Edit: More info and fixed some numbers. The conclussions remain though
Why is Tinkaton Corviknight in this one
 
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